» » Richard Branson & Mike Novogratz on Bitcoin and Crypto

Richard Branson & Mike Novogratz on Bitcoin and Crypto

20 February 2018, Tuesday
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crypto trader is proudly brought to you by element a full-service investment bank for the digital token capital markets welcome to this week's edition of crypto China stole the world's only televised cryptocurrency investment show this week we're coming to you live from our Johannesburg studios where we've got a live studio audience with us these are the guy from the Johannesburg chapter of the YPO organization these are the wipie our crypto gasps gasps welcome to our studio great to have you and please feel free not to interrupt me at any time so speaking of crypto we had a manic week on the crypto markets we had a metallic pewter and tweeting about heroin and child porn in the same tweet we had the alt market cap running to an all-time high we had Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash running against each other this week and we had the feud between Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash also running at an all-time high this week Brian Kelly are you a Bitcoin man or you have Bitcoin cash man I intend to look at Bitcoin at this point as the monetary base currency background so to me Bitcoin is the monetary base and Bitcoin cash is something like m1 or the transactional currency so no reason for the big a feud at all sir Brian why do you think there is a feud with all that's it this is not just a monetary revolution this is a social revolution so people have a lot of emotions around this a lot of people have put a lot of volunteer hours to get these currencies to where they are and they're very attached and that's and that's a good thing um so I think that the human element is coming into it but if we take a step back from that and just say okay you know what are the use cases for all of these crypto currencies and you see you know what there is a role for each of these currencies from corn cache Circuit Court Bryan the ultimate is at all-time highs a year do you feel like the alt market is at all-time highs no you know it's funny you mention that read because it does not feel like that at all look even some of what I would call it the big cap alt something like a Z hash something like that you know it's still below its all-time highs so I think a part of that is I believe the way they're calculating it has something to do with Bitcoin cash is considered part of the alt market and that expansion and market cap is out but it certainly does not feel like an etherium as well right etherium is not at all time highs either that's basically traded sideways for the last six months so it was gonna take those kind of big cat balls to get going before we feel like we're in a bull market for alts so speaking of big big cap oats what are your favorite big cap oats at the moment ah so right now single favorites on the privacy corn so Manero see cache - to some extent although that's had a bit of a run here so to me I think those are the big ones for the next month or so I you know they're again there are use cases for these do if you're a major financial organization and you want to send money do you really want the whole world to see how much you're sending and to where you're sending it so I think there is a case-to-case for these privacy coins in this ecosystem Brian there were stories that came out yesterday that China may be with or increasing the power costs to the Chinese Bitcoin miners what's your feeling on the others rumors confirmed it's hard to get an actual confirmation when you're talking about news from China ah but it does sound like there's going to be some kind of crackdown might be too strong of a word but effectively that Chinese miners have been getting a essentially free energy a very low-cost energy which is the excess energy that the the energy company in the Sichuan Province didn't need it looks like that might be coming to an end so maybe crackdown is that the right word maybe ban isn't the right word but certainly a squeeze on the profits coming from China but in general you know listen I'm all for a more centralized mining a big so I think in the long run it's healthy perfect coin to have it diversified across the globe Brian I cos a little bit out of favor at the moment are you looking at any icy O's that are coming up oh the one that I did last year that is going to be coming out in December as cosmos and to me that's a really exciting one because not only do you have the ability to create smart contracts like you do with aetherium but they have their inter blockchain protocol which basically effectively makes any blockchain infinitely scalable so anybody can spin up a hub on the cosmos blockchain and that hub can represent any coin in the ecosystem so to me this is an essential building block for the digital economy so cosmos is the one where the guy's paid much earlier this year and it's only actually listening towards the end of this year Brian your fund the fund that you manage how's your fund that's it's been a good year we're up a little over 2000 percent for the year so we picked a pretty good year to start a crypto hot billionaires buying Bitcoin yep I was looking for billionaires who are out there buying Bitcoin and I bumped into Sir Richard Branson who agreed to give me an interview on the world's first televised cryptocurrency investment show here's what he said so the blockchain has given rise to a whole new wave of entrepreneurs in fact it's like a whole new way of doing business and it's a place for Mavericks so who better to speak to about this kind of entrepreneurship than Sir Richard Branson so Richard Branson we met earlier and I couldn't shake your hand but I will shake your head now you've obviously heard of crypto trade it's the world's first cryptocurrency investment sure it's an honor to have you on you're a big believer in the blockchain and TOD the blockchain is gonna change the world can you give us some insight as to what it is about the blockchain that that attracts you to it well I think blockchain is very smart I have to admit that I invested in early on and and the reason I invested in it was the amount of different uses that could be put to I bred Hernando de Soto's books Ananda DeSoto argues that unless you can actually have you interest in your home it's very difficult for you to start a business or or create or have any wealth created blockchain have gone to presidents of Egypt and other countries and said you know we could we could register every single house in your country the 90% of your the houses that the people don't actually own they just built the houses on random bits of land we can give them home ownership and you can then create a a revolution of businesses and people being able to start businesses from scratch so when you look at blockchain blockchain actually gives rise to doing business in a very decentralized way I think for the first time in history we can really big big businesses in a collaborative way with people that maybe never even meet each other now you're all about business and having fun and letting people wear what they want to work how do you think that businesses will work when sometimes the the operators of the business never meet face to face I think it'll make businesses more efficient fortunately I think airlines are still going to be needed and people are going to need to sort of jump jump on a plane and actually come and socialize with each other as well so but at least they know in the background that the blockchain is doing doing the job in an efficient way that you guys investigating the blockchain and trying to apply it in your businesses I think different virgin businesses are looking at it in different ways and and so they should be you know we have Virgin Money which is a bank in the UK they're definitely looking at blockchain and in discussions to see how they can use it but we also you know we we also invest in in cyber currencies as well so you know so you know we're investors in Bitcoin and aetherium and some of some of those other currencies so you were interviewed on Bloomberg a while back and you at the time you spoke about how positive you were about Bitcoin and how well it's working do you believe that Bitcoin is working as a currency or do you believe Bitcoin is more a store of value I think I think for some people bitcoins used as a currency for other for others it's just a place where they can you know tuck tuck away some of their network in the same way they might talk to tuck it away in gold or silver in the last few years they would have done a lot better to attacted away in Bitcoin but we'll have to see what happens in the years to come what is your prediction about what happens in these crypto in this Bitcoin in a theory or market at the moment they're not regulated and so most governments don't recognize them as currencies and commodities do you think that you know you've threatened big corporations before but do you think that Bitcoin in etherium certain governments and and how do you think governments are going to respond I don't think Bitcoin and etherium threaten governments any more than than cash threatens governments or or credit cards certain governments I mean it's just it's a different form of currency and I think sensible governments should welcome it and sensible governments I think do welcome it I mean you know when when when America confiscated some bitcoins from somebody and you know they they immediately cashed them in and took the cash they didn't confiscate them and and destroy them so I think you know I think I think these currencies have now generally been accepted by governments they probably should have held on to the bitcoins and not and not sold them so quickly that probably made with a lot more in the same way that Gordon Brown when he sold Britain's gold should have held on to that as well so yeah I think but you're right the American government lost a lot of money by cashing it in and not holding on to it so you spoke earlier about entrepreneurship and you spoken if earlier about giving people loans maybe the best start to start entrepreneurships now no doubt you're familiar with the ico mechanism or the crowd funding mechanism for for raising capital do you not think that's maybe a better way of raising capital than asking for loans or asking governments to create loans you've opened yourself up to a whole world of potential investors through issuing tokens on your business yeah I think it's an it's an excellent idea an excellent way of people getting loans if they can you know persuade boosts why the crowd to invest in whatever they're doing and and I think should be encouraged and obviously yeah people who put money into these things have to accept that they may lose it as well as you know makes the money but you know but I think you know I think I think it's already really good a really good way forward are you investing in any other cryptocurrencies as a group or any other blockchain related ventures the thing with virgin is it's involved in so many different businesses not quite sure what everybody's doing these days but but all I can say within the big picture of things is I'm a great believer in blockchain and and and actually Bitcoin and you know I think there are absolute geniuses behind these you know these products and I wish the real guy that you know invented Bitcoin would step forward and you know be interviewed I mean or anyway I would urge him when it well in his deathbed to at least leave behind a book about how his brain works because he's an absolute genius and well now that I've interviewed Richard Branson I mean if it only makes sense that he comes next because wherever you are whoever you are come along and be interviewed but yeah it's just it's just mind-boggling what he achieved and when did you discover Bitcoin when was the first time you heard about it and I'm very lucky because I live on an island in the Caribbean and I and some of the most interesting people in the world come and visit and they teach me and so it's almost definitely propping up the bar on Necker Island that I first discovered Bitcoin makiura hedge fund manager turned into crypto man tell me how that happened when I was at fortress one of my partners called me and asked me to look into this thing called Bitcoin and having spent my life as a speculator really trading currencies and commodities and equity indices I I quickly looked and and figured you know what this is an amazing technology that there were a lot of anarchists and anti-government people libertarians that it was going to appeal to originally and that the Chinese were starting to buy it and so it was literally just those simple three ideas that I said hey this thing is gonna go higher and so when we first bought it back in 2013 was trading around 103 or $95 we bought Bitcoin and it was a little bit of a lark I said we'll buy it we think it'll go up we think it's pretty interesting and I quickly called a friend who was unemployed at the time or underemployed I should say and asked him to look into it in two weeks later he called me back and he said this is gonna change the world and so because of his enthusiasm we bought more it was still roughly a hundred dollars and started digging in and you know like a lot of things in life once you start making money at something you start looking closer at more closely at at looking deeper into it and and to be fair it was a very exciting time went right from a hundred to a thousand and I said that was said it's gonna go back down and they kind of drifted back down and kind of went dead for two years you remember you know up until fifteen Bitcoin it kind of sideways the theory mining is started and it was a little bit of just good luck that I left fortress or I sometimes like to say fortress left me I met a guy one of my college roommates was one of the founders of aetherium I went over to his office I was allowed by the energy in it and so I plunged myself full bore into it ever since Michael you're a Bitcoin man or a Bitcoin cash man I'm a Bitcoin man coin literally has the mantra and the use case of storoe value and right now people are buying this as an alternative to gold as a starting point you think about each of these coins as its own decentralized ecosystem with the sentient decentralized use case the Bitcoin use cases store a value or money I don't think Bitcoin will be used as money anytime real soon in developing the developed world a lipe works really good in China Apple pay and other payment systems work fine demo here in the US but as a store of value where this unbelievable networking effect is taking place I think it's gonna be very powerful so Mike you did a talk at the ethereal conference in San Francisco and you spoke about the fact that the herd is coming in other words I think what you mean to say was it the institutions and all the money is gonna start flowing into crypto what gives you that idea we're somewhat uniquely positioned in between a 25 year institutional career and this really dynamic young exciting crypto community and so here at galaxy that's what we're trying to position ourselves at I know a lot of people in the big institutions I mean this week I was at one of the biggest banks in the world and I spoke to their 15 most senior people giving them a tutorial on on crypto and Bitcoin they're all looking at how they get involved just last night Square which is one of the big payment systems here in the US and globally announced that they're gonna allow people to buy and sell Bitcoin on the square platform which is a monster deal and so I think you're gonna see PayPal and venmo follow and as more more institutions make access to the crypto ecosystem easier you know the the viral effects continue to happen so today we hit a new all-time high of two hundred and twenty billion dollars in crypto if I were to ask you to speculate because you're a speculator at heart speculate from you on the number at the end of 2018 you know 800 billion a trillion so you think there's still 5x in the the crypto market between on in AI have a more than 20% of my net worth invested in crypto across various assets B we're building out what we hope to be you know one of the largest institutional merchant banks in the space we're doing a hedge fund that's gonna trade the liquid part of it an advisory business and ICO business a venture business a hard money lending business and so we literally are hiring two to three people a week right now taking a real bet that the market cap goes up and I told the guys on the team I said listen if in two years the market cap is here or lower we're gonna look foolish and if the market cap is a trillion or two trillion or five trillion we're gonna look really smart remember in 1999 the Nasdaq market cap got to six trillion before we had a correction the battle between Bitcoin cash and Bitcoin and have no doubt it's a huge battle if you post something on Twitter that's for Bitcoin cash boy-oh-boy will those Bitcoin guys come and get you so vortex why do you guys feel that it's a battle between Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash what's the drive yeah it's kind of crazy right it's really interesting you know a lot of people are actually calling big Bitcoin cash and attack and you know there are reasons for that while it may not have been created as an attack of course it would definitely was like a tool used as an attack against Bitcoin and there is you know a number of reasons for that right they seem to have taken the name the logo the website they've taken some of the hash power away and no it's really interesting even if Peter are risen right the chief scientist that was a Bitcoin unlimited presumably Bitcoin cash that says one of their main objectives was to take cash power away from Bitcoin to drive off the network congestion so it's uh yeah it's a bit of a battle out there but I don't understand something and maybe you can give me clarity once and for all so if you look at blockchain blockchain gives you the option to follow a chain until you're not so happy with what the chain is doing and then what you do is you split the chain and you take your supporters with you but in the process nobody actually loses because we all got one for one Bitcoin cash for our Bitcoin so shouldn't you Bitcoin cash to succeed because then you'll have a Bitcoin that's valued at seven thousand US dollars today and then you'll have a Bitcoin cash that's valued at one thousand three hundred dollars which is a lot better off than where you were a week ago sure right and so I definitely encourage people who don't want to gamble right people who don't want the least amount of risk to just keep all the forks right we want to just keep them all and so that that definitely is an interesting dynamic for for investors to be able to say that they're going to have crypto dividends right coming coming to them so that is a definitely an interesting prospect however like I say Vic when cash is a tool right and so Bitcoin cash are was used as a weapon of attack against Bitcoin for a little while there again trying to steal the hash power away trying to steal the name the logo and the brand and I'm all for innovation I love innovation I hope that everybody creates a bunch of forks right and who doesn't love free money but the problem of course is when the fork is not friendly right when it is used to attack the original chain and that's where things are I start having problems stop why do you say the fork was not friendly I don't get it just just explain to me the non friendly part of the fork so just briefly um essentially what was happening here is that they installed something called an EDA which is that which allow us the the actual difficulty adjustment of the the chain itself to to to very and what happens was they essentially gained it so then it would be more profitable will so they pump the price right in addition to this they pump the price to make the miners come over to the Bitcoin cash chain to incentivize them to do that because the miners will just go wherever is most profitable and so in that regard they actually ended up taking around thirty percent of the hash power from Bitcoin while simultaneously running a really huge internet wide social media defamation campaign against Bitcoin that you're using a lot of terms yet so first of all if you look at the first part of your statement that's competition my friend you know as a business you God and you recruit suppliers which are the miners and you do that by giving them high incentives to join your network which is by giving them more Bitcoin cash what's wrong with it but you don't go and take their name in their logo and their website and then run huge defamation campaigns against them right okay now I'm gonna talk to you about defamation okay how do you feel that the Bitcoin cash guys have defined Bitcoin the biggest thing really is the the social media campaign that's kind of going around internet the internet and Twitter slack telegram I'm seeing reports of pretty much every single social media platform at this point being used by various paid individuals to actually try to convince people that Bitcoin cash is the only Bitcoin is the original Bitcoin and that of course is you got Bitcoin Bitcoin has the name Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash has a different name Bitcoin cash it's like Lara and Lara Lee you know it's like a different name I mean I mean it just sounds ludicrous but what's it you don't have much more time I want to ask you another question what's wrong with eight megabyte blocks why not let's let's let's scale Bitcoin let's have eight megabyte blocks and then you know what we can do we can put lightning or off chain solutions on to eight megabyte blocks and then we can really have this monster what's wrong with it and there has been a large amount of research done on larger blocks and basically what the research comes out to is that when we go over four megabytes size we start to see nodes drop off across the world due to bandwidth issues due to latency issues so that the blocks can't actually propagate fast enough across the planet and what this does is it ends up further centralizing the currency and that's the whole point of Bitcoin right as a decentralized censorship resistant money that is not in control of any government or corporation and so when you start taking away the chipping away at those properties it starts to the original audience here that there really wants the censorship resistant money starts starts attacking you and so really that's the biggest thing is that these these blocks there's no actual proof that increasing the block size is actually good for the Bitcoin or even safe and so there are much more better ways much more clever and better ways to optimize that we want to do instead of a big heavy-handed approach by only sticking only changing one number in a hard fork if we're gonna do a hard fork we are going to do some amazing things we want to put all sorts of stuff in there and not just increase a number be honest with me my friend are you still holding the Bitcoin cash that you got when when when the folks split but be honest no now I'll be honest with you ran absolutely no I am remember I really believe that crypto that I really believe in speech I believe that money is speech and I believe that crypto is free speech and so you really have to execute on your beliefs you have to take a stand and really uh you know otherwise you're just gonna be on the sidelines and for me taking a stand was selling my be cash as soon as I humanly possibly could the battle between Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash we heard the Bitcoin side of the of the coin and now I've got someone who's wearing a bit bch please shirt I can see trouble happening Roger Jake thanks for joining us all the way from Tokyo nice shirt so the Bitcoin clan say that Bitcoin cash has hijacked Bitcoin by using the name how do you respond to it I don't think anyone owns the name dick winch it's a free market process and I think the coin cash is just as much a claim to being Bitcoin as outlining Satoshi nakamoto's white paper as Bitcoin core does what's the big issue with increasing block sizes I have no idea really it's quite baffling I think ultimately it comes down to control over the protocol soon some more of the reasons might sound more tinfoil hat territory people talk about block stream and their sidechain products so explain to me what happened this weekend the price of Bitcoin cash went from $600 before the weekend to the high of somewhere around two thousand seven hundred dollars and then came back down to one thousand two hundred dollars and that happened in about 48 hours it was money heading for the exits out of Bitcoin for the first couple months that Bitcoin cash existed you could see there wasn't much of a correlation between the two prices they kind of tracked each other right but this past weekend you saw that money was bleeding out of BTC directly in the Bitcoin cash they were inversely correlated I think people were panicking they were realizing the problems the Bitcoin chain is facing and Bitcoin cash is looking like a good safe alternative right now so I agree with you about the process being inversely proportional on the weekend but if I look now the Bitcoin cash price is stable at around $1,300 and the Bitcoin price is back up over $7,000 don't we all win because I've still got my Bitcoin enough to love my pet corn cash so don't we all win when this happens yeah that's great it doesn't have to be a perpetual battle between the Bitcoin core folks and the Bitcoin cash folks so the Bitcoin guys who on the show a bit earlier said that you guys are cursing miners by giving miners an unfair or a very high reward for mining your product and then it's artificial how do you respond there's nothing unfair about it we actually do pay higher than the base block reward but all of that money comes from the insanely high transaction fees that the users are paying so really it's the users who are unfairly subsidizing the miners and actually as a mining pool we keep some portion of the mining fees for ourselves we make profit we're not paying people off we're running a business okay last question for you my friend like the the claims that the Bitcoin guys have against the Bitcoin cash guys is that Bitcoin cash is actually centralized they claim that you have a CEO and that you're not in the true spirit of blockchain or Bitcoin a truly decentralized organization the two systems are virtually identical I mean if Bitcoin cash worked from the same codebase as Bitcoin did as for the CEO claim I don't know if you read Rick balcony's documents but it was total satire and a lot of the people bashing it very obviously did not read it if they say it's centralized I would like to see them point out by what metric they're saying that okay you know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna buy a set of boxing gloves and I'm gonna invite you into the studio and I'm gonna have a Bitcoin guy here and I'm gonna have a Bitcoin cash guy here and I'm gonna let you guys box it out in the studio in the coming future Jake thanks for joining me look forward to seeing you again soon my friend that's all we have time for here today a big round of applause to our in-studio guests from the johannesburg chapter of the young presidents organization [Applause] I hope I've been able to answer all your crypto related questions if you do have crypto related questions no matter where you are in the world you can get me on twitter at crypto Mandarin and I'll be available to answer all your crypto related questions you can also follow my Twitter for live feeds from trade conferences blockchain events around the world until next week my friends trade [Music] [Music] crypto trader is proudly brought to you by element the full-service investment bank for the digital token capital marketsскачать dle 11.3
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